Like New vs. As New

This isn’t my normal blogging fare, but I’m annoyed and who else should share in my annoyance but you, a random reader?

Here’s a little conversation I had with a seller on Amazon.com. This guy had listed his book as being “Like New.” It seemed cheap, and the book was fairly old, so I asked the seller whether it really was like new.

Response:

weeklyrob:

The book is Listed “Like New” Not “as NEW”

Do not forget that the book is almost 30 years old. It is good value as compared to the other listed collectible books. Text is clean back cover has minor  nail like scratch. No DJ.

Ari

My response:

Thanks for your response. I don’t know the difference between “as new” and “like new.”

The fact that it’s so old is what made me wonder whether it was really like new.

Thanks again,

weeklyrob

I was obviously too understated. What I meant was, “there’s no fucking difference between like new and as new. You’re claiming that it’s, well, you know, LIKE NEW! And it isn’t like new, so you’re a liar.”

But I didn’t say it that way. I said it my way, with all sorts of sneering sarcasm in my head that didn’t seem to make it to the page.

[People sometimes think that I’m a prickly kind of person. Imagine if they actually got that I was being prickly three times as much as they notice.]

His response:

weeklyrob:

As new means NEW.

A collectible book can not be listed as new.

If the covers, hinges, text is in pristine but not as a 2006, NEW book is listed as “Like New” book. Just compare the other two books listed on Amazon and you will see the value.

If you are not totally satisfied you can return the book. For some reason the book is well kept.

Ari

My response:

I don’t really know what you’re playing at. I was trying to be polite, but I

think that either you really don’t know how to list a book, or something

worse.

Amazon.com says this about a “Like New” book:

Like New: An apparently unread copy in perfect condition. Dust cover is

intact; pages are clean and are not marred by notes or folds of any kind.

Suitable for presenting as a gift.

Since your book is missing the dust cover, and it has a scratch on the

cover, it is NOT in perfect condition. Since you also mention that I should

remember that it’s 30 years old, it makes me wonder even more. “Like New”

means that it’s just like it’s new. It doesn’t mean that it’s held up really

well for being so old.

I won’t even argue the idea that “Like New” and “As New” mean different

things, but please note that to the vast majority of buyers and sellers,

there’s no difference whatsoever.

Please change the misleading listing. I’ll buy it elsewhere.

Thanks,

weeklyrob

I never expected a response from him. But he sent one. In a weird sort of way, I respect that he bothered:

Have a nice day.

And I did. But I never checked whether he changed the listing.

3 Responses to Like New vs. As New

  1. BruceS February 16, 2007 at 12:19 pm #

    I think you may be being a bit too prickly on this. I also wouldn’t know the difference between “as new” and “like new”, but my expectations aren’t quite as high. Maybe I’ve just been expose to too much misleading, or absolutely false, advertising to care anymore. When I see an old item listed “like new”, I expect there to be no major flaws, but accept the odd scratch. Sure that’s not entirely honest of them, but what do want from ads? A couple of years ago, I bought a used book online, paying the price to get an otherwise unavailable book. I was surprised to find, on opening the package, that it was not only fairly pristine (I think it was advertised as “very good” condition, or something like that) but also that it was a first edition. I considered it quite likely that “very good” would include some missing pages, torn cover, broken spine, etc., but it didn’t. Keep your expectations low, and people will sometimes surprise you in happy ways.

  2. weeklyrob February 16, 2007 at 6:34 pm #

    We definitely disagree, which is ok as long as I don’t buy books from you. 🙂

    I always think that “As New” should mean that it’s as new. This is especially true in the book market, where the descriptions are actually defined. For example, “very good” should NOT include missing pages, unless those pages are mentioned in the listing.

    Here’s AbeBook’s definition:

    “Very Good (VG) – Describes a book that does show some small signs of wear – but no tears – on either binding or paper. Any defects must be noted.”

    It’s a convention that’s generally agreed upon and it’s better for seller and buyer if people stick to those conventions. You were pleasantly surprised because you didn’t know better and the book was described correctly. I know better.

    Anyway, it’s one thing when the seller is just some guy getting rid of some books. He or she wouldn’t necessarily be expected to know how to describe it within bookselling conventions. That’s a different story from what happened here.

    To me, if it’s listed properly, then I’ll pay the right price and keep the book. If not, then I’ll send the book back, and the seller will pay for my shipping. How is that good for anyone?

  3. BruceS February 17, 2007 at 10:01 am #

    If you bought books from me, I’d be honest about the condition—I just don’t expect much honesty from advertisers.

    It’s good to know that book sales have some standards, but I wonder how widespread the acceptance of these standard definitions really is. In IT, we have a saying: the great thing about standards is how many there are.

    I didn’t know better, and I’m cynical. Now, if I were to buy a book online, I’d know there were standards, but I’d still expect the seller to at least “fudge”, if not outright lie.

    Ask a Realtor sometime what terms like “split-level” and “bi-level” mean, and how they differ. I’ve seen MLS entries that abuse these terms. My current house was billed as being on a crawl space. Even when first viewing it, we easily determined it was on a slab (less desirable). I like Billy Joel’s term “real estate novelist”. When we bought my wife’s car, the salesman assured us over the phone that it had the interior we asked for, so we drove 45 min to get it. On arrival, we found he’d lied, and it had a different color, different material, despite his saying he’d personally checked in the car itself, having previously been through a similar situation he blamed on an incorrect label. We probably should have walked at this point, but the other dealers are all liers too.

    The IQ bell curve tells me that most people are stupid. Experience tells me that they’re dishonest, too.

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