{"id":33,"date":"2007-05-21T07:36:55","date_gmt":"2007-05-21T15:36:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/weeklyrob.dreamhosters.com\/?p=33"},"modified":"2007-05-21T07:36:55","modified_gmt":"2007-05-21T15:36:55","slug":"i-dont-feel-so-good","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/?p=33","title":{"rendered":"I Don&#039;t Feel So Good"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Don&#8217;t worry your pretty little heads. I feel fine.<\/p>\n<p>I really don&#8217;t like the way that people use &#8220;so&#8221; to mean, &#8220;very&#8221; in a negative statement. &#8220;This veal isn&#8217;t so good.&#8221; It just sounds wrong to me, and snob that I am, it sounds low-class.<\/p>\n<p>To me, &#8220;so&#8221; is properly used when there&#8217;s something to measure against. As in, &#8220;this veal isn&#8217;t so good that I want to eat the whole thing.&#8221; It may be good, but it&#8217;s not SO good that I&#8217;d eat it all. When someone just says, &#8220;This veal isn&#8217;t so good,&#8221; I want to hear the rest. I want to hear to what degree it isn&#8217;t good.<\/p>\n<p>Now, what&#8217;s weird here is that I don&#8217;t have the same problem when &#8220;so&#8221; is used in a affirmative statement. &#8220;This veal is so good!&#8221; &#8220;That guy is so stupid.&#8221; That doesn&#8217;t bug me.\u00c2\u00a0But thinking rationally, both negative and affirmative statements should have an indication or implication of the degree that &#8220;so&#8221; refers to.<\/p>\n<p>But English ain&#8217;t rational.<\/p>\n<p>I looked it up, of course. Merriam-Webster Unabridged gives (as their 2b definition):<\/p>\n<p>To a great extent or degree; very; quite; extremely.<\/p>\n<p>Case closed? Not really. All the examples they list from actual writers are affirmative statements. Certain people&#8217;s live are &#8220;all so patterned and convention-ridden,&#8221; for example.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m a huge believer in the examples in a dictionary. For one thing, the examples are usually language used by\u00c2\u00a0good and respectable writers, and &#8220;language used by good and respectable writers&#8221;\u00c2\u00a0is a decent definition\u00c2\u00a0of &#8220;acceptable English.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>As we all know, language changes and morphs and degrades and improves. Dictionaries describe it, and we have to figure out for ourselves whether a certain change is acceptable or not. So I turn to good and respectable writers for help. [No, I won&#8217;t define a good or respectable writer. This isn&#8217;t mathematics and it&#8217;s not that clear.]<\/p>\n<p>Another reason to check the examples is that a brief definition often can&#8217;t capture the nuances of the language. This is a pretty good case in point. Yes, &#8220;so&#8221; can mean &#8220;very,&#8221; and yes, good and respectable writers use it that way. But, at least in this dictionary, the only examples are of affirmative statements.<\/p>\n<p>Whew! Is this pedantic enough yet?<\/p>\n<p>[This reminds me of an argument I once had about the word &#8220;tantamount.&#8221; A guy had said something like, &#8220;denying that the US government is responsible for 911 is tantamount to denying the Holocaust.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Now, to me, that means that someone denying the one is more or less also denying the other. But that&#8217;s not what he meant.<\/p>\n<p>He meant that denying the one is as crazy as denying the other. In other words, he could have said, &#8220;saying that the world is flat is tantamount to saying that the US is smaller than Argentina.&#8221; One has nothing to do with the other, but they&#8217;re related in stupidity.<\/p>\n<p>Now, I won&#8217;t talk about 911 now. The guy is well-known nut-case for sure, but the language thing interested me.<\/p>\n<p>He backed up his usage with a dictionary definition: &#8220;Equivalent in effect or value.&#8221; To him, the two were equivalent in value. One is just as crazy as the other.<\/p>\n<p>This is a perfect example of how a definition can allow for more meanings than actual usage in English allows for. Examples from actual writing are important!]<\/p>\n<p>Ok, the\u00c2\u00a0next stop was the Oxford English Dictionary. Definition 13a is close, with examples of &#8220;not so&#8221; meaning, &#8220;not very.&#8221; But it&#8217;s weird, because none of the dozen or so examples bug me. Why?<\/p>\n<p>I finally figured out that the examples aren&#8217;t really using &#8220;so&#8221; to mean &#8220;not very&#8221; after all! I don&#8217;t know how they got past the editors, but they clearly are comparitive. For example:<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;A voice so thrilling ne&#8217;er was heard.&#8221; Well, that&#8217;s obviously saying that a voice as thrilling as this one was never heard. It&#8217;s NOT saying that a &#8220;very&#8221; thrilling voice was never heard!<\/p>\n<p>When someone says, &#8220;the movie wasn&#8217;t so thrilling,&#8221; they mean, &#8220;it&#8217;s not very thrilling,&#8221; and that&#8217;s the usage that bugs me.<\/p>\n<p>The only example that might work is from 1746: &#8220;They neither wrestle, sing, or paint so well.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>The problem here is that all the other examples DON&#8217;T work, so I can&#8217;t help wondering what the sentence was before this quote. I&#8217;m afraid that it was something like, &#8220;The Athenians aren&#8217;t as cool as the Spartans.&#8221; Making it comparitive.<\/p>\n<p>Definition 14a does have a definition, with examples from as far back as Beowulf(!) of writers using &#8220;so&#8221; as &#8220;a mere intensive without comparitive force.&#8221; Aha!<\/p>\n<p>But guess what. The definition actually says that this is true &#8220;In affirmative clauses.&#8221; And not a single one of the 17 examples (which range from the year 347 to 1875) use it in the negative.<\/p>\n<p>So the next step was to see whether there was a corresponding definition for the use in a negative statement. There isn&#8217;t.<\/p>\n<p>[Which, by the way, is weird. It&#8217;s weird to me that these dictionaries don&#8217;t even mention a usage that has become, if not common, at least not rare.]<\/p>\n<p>In the end, I figure that the usage bugs me because it hasn&#8217;t been around long enough, or hasn&#8217;t been used enough by those respectable and good writers that I go on and on about. Whereas the affirmative usage has been.<\/p>\n<p>And I&#8217;m not looking it up in any more dictionaries. Yes, I checked Fowler, which just has the affirmative (not even warning against the negative). Yes, I checked Follett, which ignores it altogether.<\/p>\n<p>[By the way, just to make this post longer, Follett says something completely wrong in its discussion of &#8220;try and&#8221; (like, &#8220;I&#8217;ll try and do that&#8221;). It says that no one would ever say, &#8220;I&#8217;ll try and walk to Mexico,&#8221; because it&#8217;s so unnatural. So it&#8217;s not something to guard against. But I think that lots of people would say that.]<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, I doubt that anyone has read this far, but if you have, you&#8217;re a die-hard fan, and it might not completely bore you to read that this post uses the word &#8220;so&#8221; about 10 times. Not counting when it&#8217;s in quotes.<\/p>\n<p>For those of you who skip to the bottom of these things, here&#8217;s the deal: I think that saying, &#8220;This fish isn&#8217;t so good,&#8221; to mean, &#8220;This fish isn&#8217;t very good,&#8221;\u00c2\u00a0is bad English. For now. Until it isn&#8217;t. And I&#8217;ll let it continue to bug me.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Don&#8217;t worry your pretty little heads. I feel fine. I really don&#8217;t like the way that people use &#8220;so&#8221; to mean, &#8220;very&#8221; in a negative statement. &#8220;This veal isn&#8217;t so good.&#8221; It just sounds wrong to me, and snob that I am, it sounds low-class. To me, &#8220;so&#8221; is properly used when there&#8217;s something to [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-33","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-languagelit"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=33"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=33"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=33"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/weeklyrob.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=33"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}